I have become a " pan-tribber", I believe things will pan out as GOD ordains not how humans desire.
That said, after comparing Ezekiel, Zechariah, Zephaniah, Joel, Jeremiah with the Apocalypse of John, my thought is that the rapture occurs when Messiah returns, to the place he left from, the MT of Olives splits and He walks through the Eastern Gate. That is when I think that the gathering together occurs. I note that the Church is Not appointed to wrath, GODs wrath, we are however, not greater than our Master, Yeshua. We are appointed to tribulation and persecution.
Of course, I realize that I am only a man seeing things through a glass darkly, thus my understanding is limited and subject to error.
Jesus told us we'd have tribulations and persecution in our Christian lives. Not that we'd experience the Tribulation coming on the world. If being kept out of the Tribulation (Rev. 3:10) makes us greater than Jesus, what about all the Christians who lived and died over the last 2,000 years and already escaped the Trib by virtue of having gone to glory?
While there are indeed a lot of similarities in the descriptions of both the resurrection/catching up of the saints and of the second coming, there are also stark differences. I believe that if you study the differences, it becomes clear that they can't be the same event. To me, it seems that the Harpazo and resurrection will herald the Tribulation, and the Second Coming will close it.
Thankfully, these are secondary doctrines and we can respectfully agree to disagree and still have fellowship. It really saddens me how many people on both sides of the issue are willing to disfellowship over this debate.
And like you said, we all see in the glass dimly. When He comes, regardless of the timing, every single one of us are going to get our theology straightened out.
What I think may be, may be incorrect , misunderstood, so, I look for HIM daily.
My Grandfather had belief that the last days began with the birth of YESHUA and that the persecution of the saints would get worse closer to the end and that GOD would preserve HIS elect, through the tribulation.
Again,
I think it's guess work.
What I do know is, My Redeemer Lives, HE is alive, HIS name, Jesus, Yeshua The Living Word and the tomb is Empty! He is Coming Back. Maranatha!
I have become a " pan-tribber", I believe things will pan out as GOD ordains not how humans desire.
That said, after comparing Ezekiel, Zechariah, Zephaniah, Joel, Jeremiah with the Apocalypse of John, my thought is that the rapture occurs when Messiah returns, to the place he left from, the MT of Olives splits and He walks through the Eastern Gate. That is when I think that the gathering together occurs. I note that the Church is Not appointed to wrath, GODs wrath, we are however, not greater than our Master, Yeshua. We are appointed to tribulation and persecution.
Of course, I realize that I am only a man seeing things through a glass darkly, thus my understanding is limited and subject to error.
Thus, I simply Trust GOD and look for HIM daily.
Jesus told us we'd have tribulations and persecution in our Christian lives. Not that we'd experience the Tribulation coming on the world. If being kept out of the Tribulation (Rev. 3:10) makes us greater than Jesus, what about all the Christians who lived and died over the last 2,000 years and already escaped the Trib by virtue of having gone to glory?
While there are indeed a lot of similarities in the descriptions of both the resurrection/catching up of the saints and of the second coming, there are also stark differences. I believe that if you study the differences, it becomes clear that they can't be the same event. To me, it seems that the Harpazo and resurrection will herald the Tribulation, and the Second Coming will close it.
Thankfully, these are secondary doctrines and we can respectfully agree to disagree and still have fellowship. It really saddens me how many people on both sides of the issue are willing to disfellowship over this debate.
And like you said, we all see in the glass dimly. When He comes, regardless of the timing, every single one of us are going to get our theology straightened out.
Yes. I tried to be precise in my comment.
What I think may be, may be incorrect , misunderstood, so, I look for HIM daily.
My Grandfather had belief that the last days began with the birth of YESHUA and that the persecution of the saints would get worse closer to the end and that GOD would preserve HIS elect, through the tribulation.
Again,
I think it's guess work.
What I do know is, My Redeemer Lives, HE is alive, HIS name, Jesus, Yeshua The Living Word and the tomb is Empty! He is Coming Back. Maranatha!
Amen, brother. Maranatha!